I Can't Understand Belief in God

Posted by Pariahjane

I just don't get it - this belief in god. I never have. I grew up in a household where god was non-existent. Religion simply didn't exist for me as a child. The only thing I knew was that Sundays were terribly boring because all the other kids in my neighborhood had to go to school on Sunday. I understood that people believed in this guy God and he was a good guy as long as you followed all his rules so I went along with it. If you had asked me when I was seven if I believed in god I would have replied 'hell, yes!' despite the fact that I had never stepped inside a church before. That's just what people did; they believed in god. So I did too.

But not really. I never really believed there was an actual god or supernatural being. And boy did I try! I tried my hand at Christianity, Judaism, Paganism and Buddhism when I was a teenager and I felt just as silly praying to god as I did casting a spell. I was looking for something and I thought god might be the answer but... I just could not buy into it. There was nothing there.

I had an epiphany, if you will, at the age of 18. I was hiking in the Adirondacks, hot, tired, soaked to the gills and very, very cranky. When we finally(!) reached the top of that mountain all the tiredness went away. There before me was a beautifully breathtaking scene. Rolling mountains, trees as far as the eye could see, it was just stunning and that's when it hit me. This is what I was looking for. This earth, this life - the here and now. And it had been in front of me this whole time.

I missed it because I was looking for what everyone around me was looking for - god, eternity, a reason for our lives. The reason for our lives is our life. This idea of something or someone who gave us a reason to live and therefore we owed him our lives is ludicrous. My friends were still looking toward the afterlife - this life was merely a temporary pit stop on the way to eternal salvation. Yet I couldn't accept that - it didn't make sense. Why waste this life looking forward to one that you can't even be sure exists?

The more I researched and read about religions the more I disliked them. Religion is just a club that separates people into good and bad based on a set of guidelines that are more exclusive than inclusive. It's dogmatic and unyielding. Religion is a replacement for 'I don't know'. The problem with that is once you accept it, you stop looking. Why bother trying to find out why something exists if you already know 'god did it'? It doesn't encourage learning, it encourages accepting what you are told without questions. My mother once told me 'the moment you stop learning is the moment you stop living' and I think it's the best advice anyone has ever given me. What's wrong with 'I don't know'? I happen to like 'I don't know' because that is the first step on the path to learning and understanding. Religion, on the other hand, takes the easy way out - it's all god(s) doing.

Yet I still found myself trying to understand how a person can believe in god when there is no evidence of his existence. How can seemingly educated people think they were created by some omniscient omnipotent being? Even more baffling to me is the fact that people believe the Bible really, honestly, truly, absolutely is the unerring word of god. These people think that the earth is only 6000 years old, contrary to overwhelming evidence that it is, in fact, far older than that. There are people who deny science because it simply does not fit into their perfect little religious box. They deny it even when faced with mountains of evidence, of proof. What is so powerful about religion that would make a person so deluded? Is it fear of death? The unknown? I just don't understand it. But I'll keep trying.

JCE and I had a conversation recently in which we decided that atheists probably talk more about religion than the religious do. Perhaps it's because we just happen to be curious folk but most likely I suspect that we focus on it because our society is do entrenched in religiosity. For non-believers I think it's a bit jarring. We can see the issues religion creates because we're not involved in it. We can view it from an objective standpoint, pick it apart, and see the good from the bad. I have to wonder - if a religious person was capable of seeing the hypocrisy's of their own faith would they still believe? I'm sure that some would continue to believe while others would turn away.

I guess I do understand the reasons why a person might believe in god. The hope of an afterlife, eternal life. Perhaps a little bit of it is fear. Or hope. Yet it doesn't make sense to me why a person would believe in something they can't know exists just to make themselves feel a little better about their own lives.

I know that people are going to tell me that I don't 'get it' because I'm not looking hard enough, or I don't have faith or I'm just plain stupid. I've heard those arguments countless times before and I've read, very seriously, others' accounts of 'finding god' but the holes in the story, the questions that arise from their accounts, make it impossible for me to find any proof of a god.

Belief For The Sake Of 'Hope', What's The Harm?

Posted by BGH

~
I read this article:
Atheism can't offer what religion can

The author argues that religion's offer of an afterlife is something atheism cannot provide and gives people purpose for this life.

This struck me as a immense waste of hope, a 'faux wish'. It is an option that undervalues this life, what is most likely our one shot, and demotes all actions in this life to meaningless meanderings until 'something better' comes along. Determination and optimism become bartering chips one places on the table just to make make it through to the next round. There isn't value in fortitude, and strength becomes a passe character flaw.

I would rather think this is my one chance, and every action matters. In my view there are repercussions for squandering time, the moments are lost forever and should not be wasted on your knees with hands clasped. Those precious minutes should be put to good use, working on solutions to life's troubles, hugging and kissing loved ones and appreciating every second.

If this is it, our only chance to make an impact, everything matters that much more and gives greater purpose to life. Irresponsibility becomes the character trait of those who idly wish for more later, one that is not deserving of respect or defense.

Life does have hope, not for more life after this one, rather it is to make a positive impact on those around us while we are here on this pale blue dot.
----
"These things I'll carry on
And when you're gone I'll honor you
Each day, however long"

Outgrowing the Bible as Truth

Posted by JCE

Betsy Ross
George Washington
Johnny Appleseed
Paul Bunyan
Annie Oakley
Daniel Boone
Pocahontas
Paul Revere

These names are only part of a cast of character from stories we were told as children as part of our American History education. Once we got a little older we came to understand that while some of them have a kernel of truth to them, none of the childhood stories we had been told were factual. They were either entirely fabricated or embellished. Either way, the point of the stories was to impart lessons in morality while inspiring patriotism. Nothing wrong with that at face value, but none of us walk around worshiping any of these people and no one would take the childhood stories and claim they are the absolute truth even though the stories are fairly recent in history – less than 250 years!

Why then do religious folks consider their bible to be any different from these stories? They will call the stories of Job, Jonah, the Prodigal Son, etc. parables but will still claim the bible as being The Truth. Well, it isn’t. It is myth. Some of it is interesting myth and some of it is pretty boring, but it is all myth.

I never did understand the correlation between the bible and faith. It wasn’t as though I was ever a bible-thumpin’ believer, but even as a child I could recognize the bible for what it is – ancient stories intended to instill morality during a time when people were searching for a way to establish morality in their own societies. We no longer have a need for this since we have evolved as a society and continue to evolve through education and experience.

There are those who will separate their faith from the bible (I was one of those) but after examining it, what are you left with to base your faith on? Nothing, really, except that at some point in your life you have been told to believe so you do. Not a very logical standpoint, certainly not a very well thought through one, but I suspect this is where most moderate believers end up.

Sadly, they have also been told, beginning at a very tender age that the word atheist is connected to the worst sort of individual. They are told atheists claim to know god does not exist. They are told atheists think they are smarter than god and everyone else and that atheists are full of pride with their knowledge! (Uh, yeah, cause knowledge is real bad. Says so right there in the first chapter of the good book. Note to self: any book that says knowledge is bad, probably isn’t one you should invest a lot of effort into examining.) They are told atheists will worship anything and aren’t you the lucky little ducks for getting such good instructions to worship the ‘right’ thing.

Not only is none of that true, they leave out a very important part in all of their preaching. Nearly all believers believe their chosen god because of an accident of birth. Had I been born in a different part of the world, I would no doubt have been raised Hindu, Muslim or Jewish. Once this realization seeps into the gray matter of the average believer, they are usually much more receptive to applying critical thinking to other aspects of their faith.

Admitting Lack Of Belief To A Child's Friends

Posted by BGH

~
I wrote a few months back about my son's friends and the religious questions had about my beliefs.
Atheism And Your Children's Friends

At the time I was foreseeing a day when they would press harder and the questions would no longer be passing in nature and instead, they would truly want to know, "Does BGH believe in god?".

Well, that day was today. We were all hanging out, I had just finished a home improvement project and took a seat at the kitchen table. My son's friends, we affectionately call them 'the boys', always are full of questions around me. The topics are about anything and anything, from sex to peer pressure to drugs to, well this time... god.

As I said earlier, they have asked before but it seems their attention was quickly diverted elsewhere because they are 14 years old and not many of things can get them to slow down for a minute. Usually when the boys are together, there are four of them (my son included), they have laptops open, guitar hero playing and all out WWF matches going on in the middle of the living room all at once.

Today, while I was sitting at the table, the subject of a movie we watched the previous night came up. We had watched "The Exorcism Of Emily Rose", a preposterous story of a 'true' demonic possession gone bad. Well, there was very little merit given to skepticism in the movie and the message seemed to be that everyone was supposed to 'believe' based on anecdotal evidence and hearsay.

Well, one of the boys asked straight out, "Do you believe in god?" I have treaded lightly in this area in the past because I do not want my lack of belief to influence my son's friendships. So I asked the boy, "How do you feel about people who don't believe in god?" He replied in turn that, he had nothing against them but added, he didn't think ever knew anyone like that. So I told him, "Now you do." I continued, "Well, you have for a while, but you just didn't know it."

After that it was a flood of questions. Mainly, we covered the why's and the how's like "why not?", "what do you think happens to us when we die?" and "how do you think we got here?" We went over my time being raised catholic, the questions I had, my desire for more evidence than just the bible and some very in-depth descriptions of the early universe. We discussed how, given substantial evidence I would be open to changing my mind, but up until this point in my life the criteria just hasn't been satisfied.

I did not 'profess' atheism, I did not call them silly or deluded, and did not try to sway them. I mostly just answered their questions and told them, whether someone is a believer or not, if they are my friend and a good person they are welcome in my house. The boys discussed what their parents might think, the twins didn't think their parents would care too much but the other boy had his doubts about the reaction of his parents. They all decided, on their own I will add, that there isn't any reason to run home and tell mom and dad. Their parents like us as we are and unless they specifically ask (like the boys did), there isn't a reason to tell them.

All in all it was a great talk and I foresee many more questions about my non-belief. I look forward to it.
----
"These things I'll carry on
And when you're gone I'll honor you
Each day, however long"

This Guy is A-Ok

Posted by Pariahjane

I've been reading Happy Jihad's House of Pancakes for awhile now and figured I would pass this gem on to all of you. He's funny, quirky, snarky as hell and a damn good writer.

I found him on the Atheist Blogroll but it was really the rejection letters series that got me hooked (great sense of humor, that one). Anyway, please check him out if you get a chance.

Oh, and he just introduced to me April Winchell so if you don't hear from me for a long time that's why. She's amassed a huge amount of MP3's that are bizarre and great at the same time. I highly recommend 'Stayin' Alive' the Pan Flute version.

Penn Explains Atheism Gives Solace While Dealing With Loss

Posted by BGH

~
I love the explanation Penn Jillette gives how there is comfort and solace in atheism when we have to deal with losing those very dear to us.

From Crackle: Penn says- Atheism is a Solace

----
"These things I'll carry on
And when you're gone I'll honor you
Each day, however long"

Who made Morality?

Posted by Pariahjane

Over the weekend I had a conversation with someone about our childhoods. I grew up in a household where religion was non-existent; it was simply not an issue and not something that was generally talked about unless us kids had specific questions. I explained this to my friend and she asked ‘well, were you did learn right from wrong, then?’ Admittedly, I was a bit taken aback by this and got a bit flustered. I tried to explain to her that we learned right and wrong the same way everyone else did – by everyone around us, specifically our parents. She pressed a bit and I explained that I think morals are inherent in human beings and that we generally ‘do unto others as we would want them to do unto us’. Well, of course, the Golden Rule! I had a feeling that this little phrases and satisfied her that God had indeed given me morality regardless of whether I believed in him or not.

I didn’t want to press the issue. I didn’t want to point out that paganism also has it’s rules of morality, often known as the Wiccan Rede (or crede) – “An’ it harm none, do what you will’ or something along those lines. I didn’t want to say that if she looked up every single religion the majority of them would probably have something very similar to ‘the golden rule’ and that many of those religions probably pre-date Christianity.

In my defense, I was among polite company and didn’t think it appropriate to engage in a religious debate. And anyway, I’m dreadful at debating. Nevertheless, this conversation has been bouncing about in my head for these past few days.

I have a difficult time understanding why people can’t accept that perhaps the morals we find in religion are there only because those morals were established in a culture first. Human beings existed before religion did and our ancient ancestors had communities and families. It makes sense that if you’re a surly motherfucker who lies, cheats and kills you aren’t really going to be very welcomed into the community. We are a social species; we want other people to like us. We need other people to like us since we really can’t survive on our own. That is where morality comes from. It’s called humanity.

Morality is also incredibly subjective. What is morally acceptable in one culture is definitely not a-ok in another. I personally find the treatment of women in Middle Eastern cultures to be atrocious. To them, it’s completely acceptable (for the most part, anyway). I’m viewing their moral standards through the haze of my own.

I do not think that morality came from religion. I think that religions picked up on their (at the time) current vibe of morality and cultural taboos and perpetuated it. It was (and is) a means of population control. Let the people know what is ok and what is not and make sure they realize that if they don’t toe the line they are going to suffer consequences so great that it will haunt them long after they are dead.

God did not invent morality. Morality was made by the same people who made God. Man.

Having a bad day?

Posted by Pariahjane

Original Article

I posted earlier in the week about the Davis vs. Sherman episode here and here.

So, it appears Representative Monique Davis has apologized for her bigoted rant on atheist activist Rob Sherman. Better late than never, right?

But, after being on the receiving end of a week’s worth of public criticism,
Davis called Sherman yesterday to apologize.

Sherman says Davis
told him she "took out her frustrations and emotions on me and that she
shouldn’t have done that." Sherman says Davis' explanation was "reasonable" and
that he forgives her.

According to Sherman and State Rep. Jack
Franks….Davis claims her outburst was triggered by learning shortly
beforehand…that there’d been another Chicago Public School student killed.

Ok, fair enough. She had a 'bad day'. I mean, if I had a bad day and decided to go on a rant about a minority than that would totally cool, right? I can just chalk up my behavior to a 'bad day' and walk away without any consequences. Right?

I suspect that Davis apologized not because she didn't mean what she said or she actually felt bad. No, I think it might have had a little something to do with this:




Again, I'm a bit disappointed that this hasn't gotten very little play in the media, though I'm certainly not surprised.

To be honest, I really don't think it matters whether she apologized or not. I think what she said is only part of the issue. She's an elected official and she basically told Mr. Sherman that he didn't deserve to be there because he was an atheist. The fact that she apparently got away with it without any (or very little) repercussions is equally bothersome. If she had said the same thing to someone but changed 'atheist' to 'Jew', 'Muslim' or 'Chinese' I think people would have been outraged. Instead, it passed under the radar. Very telling, don't you think?

Motivational Poster for atheists

Posted by Pariahjane

(via Bligbi)

I usually try to add my own two cents but I think this says it all...

Right to our Opinions

Posted by Pariahjane

Yesterday, I posted something about the debacle between Monique Davis and Robert Sherman. In response to that article someone else posted a comment on Digg:

Why can't this woman voice her opinion? Last time I checked we still had freedom of expression in this country. I realize that Atheists think that means that only they are allowed to express themselves but it does not. Voicing her opinion is her right whether you like it or not.

I have noticed in my travels that when people disagreements they often accuse the person with the dissenting view of somehow censoring or inhibiting free speech. Our friend's comment above shows just how little this person actually knows about the basic concept of freedom of speech. You see, because I disagreed with Monique Davis' bigoted perception of atheists, in particular Rob Sherman, this person is accusing me (and those who share my viewpoint) of somehow trying to stop Monique Davis from 'voicing her opinion'. This is clearly not the case.

No where in my post did I say that Davis wasn't entitled to say what she did. I just called her a bigot because that's what she is. All of our actions have consequences and this includes our opinion. If you feel you have the right to voice your judgment than you should not be offended when people disagree.

Why can't this woman voice her opinion?

She can. And she has. We are simply responding with our own opinions.

Last time I checked we still had freedom of expression in this country.

We do. It's rather nice, isn't it? However, we still need to be held accountable for what we say. There are social ramifications for saying something that is not socially acceptable. You can't run around shouting racial epithets at people. Well, you could but I wouldn't recommend it.

I really despise white supremacy, for example. Actually I despise any racial supremacy in general but for shits and giggles we'll stick with white supremacy. I think it's deplorable and I think racist groups like this spread and breed ignorance and hate. HOWEVER, they are entitled to their opinion and I am entitled to disagree with it.

It becomes a problem when the disagreeing becomes suppression. And since no one is attempting to suppress Monique Davis' viewpoint there is no problem.

I realize that Atheists think that means that only they are allowed to express themselves but it does not.

Yawn. This is called 'you're talking out of your ass'. But that's just my opinion. The other nice thing about opinions is, unlike facts, you don't have to back them up. Lucky you.

And anyway, we all know what they say about opinions...

Monique Davis think atheism is dangerous

Posted by Pariahjane

I've been out of the loop for a little while so I'm sure this has gotten plenty of play but when I saw this I couldn't resist. This is bullshit. Monique Davis (D-Chicago) is a bigot, plain and simple.


Excerpt (via About.com)

Davis: I don’t know what you have against God, but some of us don’t
have much against him. We look forward to him and his blessings. And it’s really
a tragedy -- it’s tragic -- when a person who is engaged in anything related to
God, they want to fight. They want to fight prayer in school. I don’t see you
(Sherman) fighting guns in school. You know? I’m trying to understand the
philosophy that you want to spread in the state of Illinois. This is the Land of
Lincoln. This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God, where people
believe in protecting their children.… What you have to spew and spread is
extremely dangerous, it’s dangerous--

Sherman: What’s dangerous, ma’am?

Davis: It’s dangerous to the progression of this state. And it’s
dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists! Now you
will go to court to fight kids to have the opportunity to be quiet for a minute.
But damn if you’ll go to [court] to fight for them to keep guns out of their
hands. I am fed up! Get out of that seat!

Sherman: Thank you for sharing your perspective with me, and I’m sure
that if this matter does go to court---

Davis: You have no right to be here! We believe in something. You
believe in destroying! You believe in destroying what this state was built upon.

I wonder what would have happened to this woman if she had railed against Judaism? Islam? Hinduism?

Davis throws out a red herring by suggesting Sherman's not interested in banning guns in schools, which has nothing to do with the matter at hand. (I don't know what his stance is on that subject, just for the record. It's still irrelevant in the context it was used.)

It's unacceptable that she feels Mr. Sherman doesn't have rights because he lacks faith in god and accusing him of 'destroying' the country just shows how ignorant she really is.

Other articles on this debacle can be found here, here, here and here.

Also, Rob Sherman's website.

I also tried to find out if she's made some sort of apology or if any actions wasn't taken officially. I'm positive that if she had made these comments about another religion, something would have been done. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any information regarding that.

Get Out!

Posted by JCE

***
Last night I attended my first local Atheist Meetup meeting. It was great!!! It was perfect for me because this particular meeting was an informal gathering of about 10 people for coffee and conversation. Everyone was very welcoming and the conversation that followed was fantastic! It was kind of like sitting around talking with the family except that the conversation was intellectual - HA! (j/k - my family conversation are usually pretty intellectual too).

The meeting did not have a formal agenda (unlike the regular Rationalist meetings) and the discussions ranged from:

• Deconversion stories
• Pets
• Atonement/Absolution
• Developing a secular AA program
• The local Ethical Society
• Ethics
• Knee-jerk reactions to any organization that smacks of religion (i.e. The Ethical Society)
• Neurology/Psychology/Materialism
• Public perception of atheism
• Politics

As you can see, there was a lot of ground covered and the two hours flew by quickly. I am looking forward to the next meeting very much. If any of you out there have not yet attended a local atheist meeting, I encourage you to check it out.

One interesting thing that I noticed is when I look at the message board for this particular group, the participants appear to be 50% or more female. Now, I have spent enough time in the online atheist community to know that the population there is overwhelmingly male. Conclusion? Women are social creatures. (Duh.) Actually, this pretty much confirmed what I always suspected about churches. While the majority of them may be led by men, it is the women that keep them running. Women are the glue that binds society together. Knowing this fact made me wonder if there are women who drag themselves and their families to church for lack of any other resource out there. I think there are. Recently I asked a theist friend of mine if she thought she would be Catholic if she had not been raised that way. I suspected her answer would be no and it was. She said most of the doctrine and dogma are bullshit in her opinion, but she enjoys going to church and working with the children in Sunday School.

So....there is an obvious gap here. Atheists don't preach or proselytize and advertising is extremely difficult given the religious climate of today's society and the misunderstanding surrounding atheism so closing this gap is difficult. It is, however, something I would love to try to tackle and if I can make just a little bit of a difference in my lifetime, it will be well worth the effort. Just exactly how I plan to do this, I have not yet figured out, but the wheels are turning. If anyone has suggestions or experience or would just like to talk about this, please feel free to post a comment here or e-mail me!
***

Random musings of an anti-religious person

Posted by Pariahjane

I was having a conversation with a friend the other day and she said something along the lines of 'well, you just hate religion'. I protested this statement and as I was trying to tell her I am not anti-religious it hit me that I was wrong. I am anti-religious. I suppose I was uncomfortable with this realization because of the negative connotations it carries. However, the more I thought about it the more I realized that being anti-religious isn't a bad thing.


I do not agree with religious dogma and I think it has a negative impact on our cultures. I think religion has contributed to a lot of woe, suffering and violence in its existence, from the human sacrifices of the Mayan culture to Spanish Inquisition to our current religious climate. I'm not picking on one specific religion - I think all of religion is detrimental. Religion creates intolerance. I will acknowledge that some good has come from religion but I do question whether or not it was really worth it in the long run. I believe basing your life on the existence of something in which you have no proof even exists is plain silly. Forcing other people to conform to your beliefs because of this unknowable entity is unacceptable. We see this happening all the time and it's just wrong. Yup, I'm anti-religious.

However, just because I think that religion is bad doesn't mean that I'm interested in wiping it off the face of the planet. Sometimes the nice thing about not believing in dogma is that I am free to think for myself, unfettered by religiosity. You see, I really don't care what you believe. You can believe that aliens inhabit our bodies, or that there was a virgin birth, or fairies flitting about and I really do not care. You have a right to believe and I have a right to think you're a bit silly for doing so.

The problem with religion is that most religions don't just want their followers to believe, they want their followers to do something and that something usually involves people that don't subscribe to the religious belief, whatever that may be. Religion separates people - those that believe are 'good' and those that don't believe are 'bad'. Personally, and I think most would agree with me, there are some people that are good or bad regardless of their religious beliefs or lack thereof.

I would be perfectly happy to never have to think about religion but that isn't the case in this day and age. Religion plays such a huge role in this world and while there are some positive aspects to religion, the negative seem to outweigh them.


I can respect a person's right to have faith even if I disagree that faith because I believe that there are certain things that no one has a right to try to take away. However, I don't have to respect that person's faith if it begins to infringe upon my own rights.

Easter Pitch-A-Bitch Fest

Posted by BGH

~
Reasons Easter Sucks Ass:

Allergies are acting up. Fuck!

Weather sucks EVERY year on Easter. Today we had rain, snow, sun, rain, snow, sun, snow and overcast (in that order)... all while hovering around 40°F. Other years it is humid and hot, rainy and cold, rainy and hot, and rainy, hot, humid, cold all together.

I have to run across full page ads like these in the paper that I think should represent the biggest offense to god (if one were to exist), using the faith to attract customers and profit from it. Oh wait, isn't that what the churches do already? No matter anyway, I would never shop at a Hobby Lobby owned store solely for this reason, though the Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists probably shouldn't either.

I pass churches that glorify the torture and death of a loved one (Jesus), with sign indicating "He Is Risen". Yeah? So you say he is, huh? Well, how far did he fucking rise? He has purportedly been 'risen' for 2000yrs and we have had space flight for 40 of those years, you think they would have run into him somewhere up there. Additionally, he supposedly rose as body and flesh, shouldn't he be a nice frozen chunk of matter by now?

As a kid I was never a big fan of this holiday, and as I have aged it hasn't gotten any better.

Though, I do love ham and hard boiled eggs...... mmmmmm!
----

Coming out Godless

Posted by Pariahjane

I stumbled across this in my blog travels and thought it was a pretty good idea. I haven't yet had time to put my story up there but it is really interesting to read the stories that other people have posted.

If you have time, definitely read some of these stories. Perhaps even post your own.

Spirituality??

Posted by BGH

~
I don't get it.

Plain and simple, I don't understand it. I don't know what it is, I don't know what people mean when they say they need it. Or what they have acquired when they claim to 'find' it. Why do people, especially atheist/rationalists declare to require it?

I really don't understand when a self claimed 'rationalist' states a desire for what appears to be woo woo. What does it mean to be 'spiritual'? Why does the human mind appear to desire this feeling?

I can understand calming oneself, meditating and focusing on thoughts. I can see how clearing the mind and digging to the bottom of issues can be helpful. But to me, this has always been about brain function, physiology and concentration. I do not know what 'spiritual' is supposed to mean.

I guess I am really out of the loop on this one.

[Edit - P.S. -- I don't think I 'want' to get it either]
----

My Goal Is Not More Atheism, It Is More Rationality

Posted by BGH

~
In numerous discussions on message boards and with co-workers, friends and family, the claim has been made that I am somehow evangelizing for atheism. This could not be further from the truth.

For me there is no such thing as preaching atheism. My atheism came about as a inability, a pure cognitive incapability, to believe in god/gods. There was never anything in the world of reality as we know it that made me wonder if a divine force was somehow involved. I think all 'truths' to the natural world questions can be explained by natural processes and never had the need to invoke the supernatural. Though science may not have all the answers to questions about this world and our universe, I think it is the best method we have for learning those answers.

This leads us back to rationality, real reasoning begins when we do not make-up solutions to queries, rather it begins when we follow the empirical evidence. Wherever it may lead us. Whether the answer is one that make us feel special or not, we gain nothing by placating our emotions via lying to ourselves. This approach should be applied to all aspects of our lives, not just god-belief. An honest assessment of the facts without the delusional, wishful thinking that has lead so many to ignore, even argue against, reality.

Purpose is not derived from serving the divine, or claiming special creation. Our purpose is within us, to make the most of this one shot we have, to take nothing for granted and to value that which is approximately 13.5 billion years in the making.
----

Dawkins University Tour

Posted by Pariahjane

I just received this email from the Secular Student Alliance. I figured I'd spread the word.

Dawkins University Tour Schedule
Submitted by august on Thu, 2008-02-28 17:18.
The Secular Student Alliance is pleased to announce a series of upcoming campus events featuring Richard Dawkins, renowned scientist and public intellectual, discussing The God Delusion and the state of science education. These appearances are hosted and organized by various local and national organizations. All events are free, but tickets and pre-registration are required at many of the venues. Events are being held at the locations below:

March 6, 6:30 p.m., at Arizona State University
Sponsored by BEYOND: Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science
Gammage Auditorium, Tempe, AZ
Reservations required; go to http://beyondcenter.asu.edu/register for registration information.
Meet Secular Student Alliance Field Director Alison Bates at this event.

March 8, 7:00 p.m., at University of California – Berkeley
Hosted by Students for a Non-Religious Ethos (SANE)
Wheeler Auditorium, Berkeley, CA
Tickets are first-come, first-serve at the event.
Meet Secular Student Alliance Board member Joe Foley at this event.


March 9, 2:00 p.m., at Stanford University
“Against Ignorance: Science Education in the 21st Century”: a conversation with Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss
Hosted by the Aurora Forum
Memorial Auditorium, Palo Alto, CA
Tickets are available through the Stanford Ticket Office and can be picked up in the Tresidder Memorial Union. Call (650) 725-2787 for more information.
Meet Secular Student Alliance Board member Joe Foley at this event.


March 11, 7:30 p.m., at University of Wisconsin – Madison
Hosted by the Distinguished Lecture Series
Memorial Union – Wisconsin Union Theater, Madison, WI
Tickets available at the Union Box Office on March 4 for students, staff and faculty, and on March 7 to the general public.

March 14, 7:00 p.m. at the Barnes and Noble Tribeca
97 Warren Street, New York, NY

March 15, 7:00 p.m., in New York City
Hosted by CFI NYC, New York Society for Ethical Culture, Columbia Atheists & Agnostics, and Atheists, Agnostics, & Freethinkers at NYU
New York Society for Ethical Culture, 2 West 64th Street at Central Park West, New York, NY
Tickets are first-come, first-serve at the event.
Meet Secular Student Alliance Field Director Alison Bates at this event.


March 19, 7:00 p.m., at the University of Texas – Austin
Hosted by Atheist Longhorns and the Secular Longhorn Alliance
Hogg Memorial Auditorium, Austin, TX
Tickets are first-come, first-serve at the event.
Meet Secular Student Alliance Board member Becky Robinson at this event.

Student freethought and skeptic groups are invited to attend and help with book sales and event promotion. If you are a student and would like to get involved by volunteering at one of these events, please contact Alison Bates at alison@secularstudents.org

I am NOT a fanatical atheist!!

Posted by Pariahjane

I’ve been hearing a lot about these fanatical or militant atheists in the news lately and I feel I have to address this. I feel very strongly about certain subjects and will speak up whenever the topic is broached. I think most people can agree with that sentence, right? It's perfectly normal that people disagree. It's called communication, after all. There are so many different arguments about so many subjects out there that it is impossible for everyone to agree on everything.

I am also atheist. For some reason, whenever religion or politics are brought up and I argue my position I'm immediately labeled 'fanatical' or 'dogmatic'. I don't scream and yell when I debate and I'm always very polite and considerate, especially if the person who I am conversing with is not a close friend. You see, I understand that people don't like us non-believers. I get it. I also think it's ridiculous. One day I hope the negative perception of atheists dissipates and I will do my best to help that. Trust me, if some of the politicians lately swapped out the label 'atheist' with 'Jew' or 'African American' people would be hopping mad and calling for their blood. And that would be expected. However, when a politician makes a disparaging remark against non-believers or attempts to enact some law that marginalizes non-believers, and we react we're 'militant'.

Well, here's another label that gets slapped on atheists - we're 'angry'. Well, that one I'll accept because I am angry. And I'm sick and tired of being labeled 'fanatical' because I speak out to defend my rights. The funny thing is, in order to defend my rights I have to defend yours as well. I think everyone in this country deserves equal rights. There aren't a lot of theists out there who feel the same toward atheists. I'm sick and tired of being called immoral because I don't follow a holy book. I am just as moral as the next person, perhaps even more so.

I am not a fanatical atheist and this is why. There is nothing to be fanatical about, plain and simple. I am just a little more atheist than all the religious people. You don't believe in Zeus or Demeter, do you? Well, neither do I. I just also happen not to believe in your god.

I am not dogmatic and there are no 'rules' in atheism. It is not a religion. Trust me, non-believers disagree with each other more often than you could fathom. There are no rules and regulations that we must follow as a group and quite honestly, there is no group. I do not consider books written by Dawkins or Harris or whoever to be my bible nor do I agree with everything any of those authors say. I am glad, however, that they wrote those books and that the books gained recognition.

Fanaticism should not be equated with voicing your opinion. I voice my opinion because I feel it's important. I voice my opinion because I have the right to in this country and we should all be thankful that we have that ability. There is something terribly wrong happening to this country and if I don't defend myself than I cannot complain when my rights are gone. And our rights are disappearing. That has nothing to do with being an atheist or a Christian; everyone should be concerned about that.

I'm not interested in changing anyone's religious beliefs. I honestly don't care about religion - if you believe, that's fine. What I do care very much about is the fact that those beliefs are affecting other people that don't share them. Religion belongs in your home, church or community. It does not belong on a political platform.

I see no evidence of a god and therefore it seems reasonable to me that there isn't a god. Should evidence surface that a god exists then I will believe in god. I don't know if we will ever know if there is a god. Some agnostics argue that we can never know for sure if there is a god or not but I can't say that I agree with that. Perhaps one day we will. I’m ok with saying ‘I don’t know’.

I think that everyone has a right to believe in whatever god or deity they want to. However, that belief cannot infringe upon the rights of others. I don't think governments should have the right to tell their people what they can and cannot believe in as long as that belief (or lack of) is not hurting anyone.

I care very much about the separation of church and state. The line between them has faded in this country and we need to put a stop to it. As a country we're suffering because of it. I don't give one whit about God being on our dollar bills or in our pledge though I do wish people would realize that they weren’t always there to begin with. I care a great deal that we have political leaders who are willing to ignore our Constitution because of their religious beliefs. There are also religious secularists so I fail to see how being atheist would somehow make me more fanatical than a religious person who shares my views on this subject.

I suppose you could say that I'm fanatical about protecting my civil rights and the rights of others. When I see the religious right carrying on about gay marriage I want to spit. I don't think anyone has the right to enforce their religious beliefs on another person who does not share them. This is what is happening with gay marriage and it needs to be stopped. We are all citizens of this country regardless of who you love and as citizens we all deserve to have the same rights. If you find gay marriage morally reprehensible then don’t participate in it. But you do not have the right to deny other people from participating in it.

I don't care about religion. If it wasn't for the religious right trying to push their beliefs into the government than there wouldn't be so many non-believers suddenly standing up and saying 'wait a minute, this isn't right'. It's not right and it must be stopped. So, call me fanatical if you must but all the bad names in the world will not stop me from standing up for my rights.

Those That Live In Glass Houses....

Posted by BGH

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An Evangelical Chaplain that leads Bible study at the California State Capitol has decided to show the intolerance that really underlies his faith as opposed to the tolerance that really underlies the same faith. ...... Huh, wha?
Remarks stir flap over faith at Capitol

The chaplain, a servant of a the so called all-loving god, said in reference to other Christian groups who have a more inclusive stance:

"Although they are pleasant men in their personal demeanor, their group is more than disgusting to our Lord and Savior," Drollinger wrote on the Capitol Ministries' Web site.

It is always a little funny to me that those who extol the virtues of their Saviour, based on a cafeteria style faith choosing from one of four gospels to make their stance, can either call their 'Jesus' omni benevolent, or make an argument that he is the opposite.

Doesn't this illustrate that, the book is really a mish-mash of oral traditions and word of mouth accounts that really are mythology the same as ancient Greek writings regarding their gods? There is no one 'Truth' to be obtained from this holy book anymore than there is divine message to be derived from Tom Clancy novels.

The bigot continued:

"What the fellowship group offers is Jesus of Nazareth, a good moral teacher who loves everyone without distinction," Drollinger wrote on his Web site. "This is a deadly lie.

"There is no true fellowship without first being reconciled to God," he wrote, defining reconciliation as "repentance from sin and faith in God through the work of Jesus Christ the Messiah."

Delusion attacking delusion, for using different passages from the same religious tome to support their position.

Pot... please meet Kettle...
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